The recent information that Israel has recalled its ambassadors from Ireland and Spain for consultations in response to these countries’ recognition of Palestine as a state indicates a new wave of tension across the Middle East. Against the backdrop of the war in Gaza, any diplomatic confrontation may not seem like a significant event capable of influencing the situation. However, it demonstrates that international pressure on Israel continues to intensify.
Minval.az asked Israeli political analyst Mikhail Finkel to comment on the situation.
– Israel has recalled its ambassadors from Ireland and Spain. Many countries are ready to support the idea of Palestinian statehood. How far can Israel go with recalling ambassadors? It’s impossible to do this with all the countries that recognize Palestine, right?
– Let’s start from the beginning. The ambassadors were recalled for consultations. If someone wrote that Israel permanently recalled its ambassadors from these countries, that’s nonsense, not corresponding to reality. They were recalled for consultations to prepare a symmetrical response.
Let’s clarify what Palestine is. It’s like calling it “Artsakh” – a non-existent autonomy within Israel. “Palestine,” so-called, has no currency of its own; the Israeli shekel is in circulation there. It has no heating system of its own; heating is supplied by Israel. It has no water of its own, which is also supplied by Israel. It has no gas, also supplied by Israel. It has no electricity, also supplied by Israel. All of Mahmoud Abbas’s power in Ramallah, a small town near Jerusalem, is supported by Israeli bayonets because if we slightly weaken support for Mahmoud Abbas, despite his verbal glorification of terrorists, he will be eliminated by Hamas and other terrorists, and his power will be overthrown immediately. So, when we say “Palestine,” it sounds nice, but only as a name given by Emperor Hadrian in the 2nd century AD, who renamed Judea to Palestine after suppressing another war against Rome. Palestine refers to the Philistines, an ancient extinct people who have no relation to Arabs.
Regarding recognition: let them recognize it… Many countries were ready to recognize “Artsakh” as an independent state, but it didn’t happen. Now they will recognize Palestine. Let them, we don’t mind. But there’s a huge gap between recognition and statehood, especially for those who have nothing of their own. We are not afraid of this at all. We are not like a dog that runs ahead, looking back at its owner to see what everyone will say and who will recognize it. It’s the choice of each country. Another matter is the response. What kind? Soon everyone will see what our response will be.
Let’s ask: who is in power in Spain? Leftists! What is the policy in Norway? Leftist! And leftist policy is neo-Trotskyist, radical socialism fused with anti-Semitism and anti-Israel sentiments. We see this all over the world today. The same is in Ireland. None of this surprises us. This is impossible in countries where conservative politicians are in power. So, we will see what happens. The main thing is we are not afraid of anything.
– Do you agree that Israel is losing the information war in the world today?
– Do you understand how much money Israel spends on wars with a huge number of countries and terrorist groups? We are a country smaller in area than the Moscow region. But we have excellent intelligence, an army, and we fight not only with Hamas but also with Hezbollah, Syrian and Iranian terrorists, the Houthis, a hot war with Iran, and many radicals around the world. At the same time, we have the task of protecting Jewish communities around the world, not just Israeli citizens. We simply don’t have the money to spend billions on a propaganda war like Qatar, Kuwait, and Iran can. And of course, we are losing it – the forces are unequal. But it doesn’t matter because the real war is won on the battlefield. The fact that much of the world hated us 70 years ago under Hitler, and still does today, does not surprise us. We don’t expect love. But on the battlefield, we will always win, and not against one country, but an entire region. That’s how it was and will be.
– Then let’s talk about victory. Does Israel have a specific plan and a developed victory algorithm? From the places where the IDF withdraws, militants infiltrate again, and the situation destabilizes. This way, the war can go on forever. Does Israel have a vision of this victory? What should it look like?
– Of course, we do. I’ll give you a couple of classic examples. On May 9, 1945, the Allies liberated Nazi Germany. How many years after that did Nazis and SS members commit terrorist acts and attacks? Five years. That is, the cleanup of Germany lasted five years. The fighting with the Forest Brothers in the Baltics and Ukraine continued until the mid-1950s, ten years after the war ended. In Chechnya, after the end of the anti-terrorist wars, Russia carried out cleanups for many years. Americans in the Middle East or anywhere else, after winning on the battlefield, conducted anti-terrorist operations to clear territories for a long time. This is a classic genre, and there is nothing new here. Today, our tanks are in the last quarter of the last city, Rafah, located on the border with Egypt, where the last Hamas battalion that refuses to surrender weapons is being destroyed. The battle is already won. A few more days, a week… We move slowly, advance calmly, to avoid risking soldiers’ lives. Hamas lost. It’s a fiasco. But raids, attacks, and terrorism propaganda will continue for many years.
Of course, we have a plan to create an administration there that will be adequate, not radically Islamist. We will have to try to create something like the Arab Emirates, where normal people will sit, trade, work, educate their children, and improve the level of medicine. And we want to help them in every way. But, unfortunately, the people there do not understand this. All this needs to be eradicated, but the procedure will take many years.
– Does Israel have these years, given the complication of relations with the UN?
– Where do we have to hurry? What should we fear? You know, 70 years ago, everyone told us, “You will never have your own country.” And our Prime Minister Ben Gurion responded: “We don’t care what the world says. We will have a country.” Although it was hard to believe because the only people who lost their land for 2,000 years and recreated the state on their historical lands are us. The only people who lost their language and revived it after 2,000 years are us. The only people who could not have achieved all this without winning wars against the entire Middle East are us. We don’t care what the world says. We have our own army, our intelligence, and influence on world politicians. And we have a very strong faith in God, which has always helped us win. We don’t look back at what the world will say. Understand? All our wars were contrary to the world’s opinion. The world did not want to let us win all our wars, but we won. And it is very similar to Azerbaijan’s victory in Karabakh. The whole world did not want to give you this victory, but your president, a wise man, a competent strategist, and a politician said, “We don’t care what the world says – this is our land, and we will liberate it.” We see it the same way. We are not intimidated by UN resolutions, of which there are hundreds against us. We are not intimidated by boycotts of countries. There is an ancient saying: “The dog barks, the caravan moves on.” And this is our approach.
– You said Israel would like Palestine to have a normal, adequate government capable of managing the process…
– We have different terminology with you. I don’t know what “Palestine” is. There is the Palestinian Authority within Israel, where Mahmoud Abbas and the Fatah party rule, and there is the Gaza Strip, where Hamas ruled until recently. There is no Palestine as a state. At least not for us, Israel. Which piece are you talking about? The one where Mahmoud Abbas is, that is, the West Bank of the Jordan River or the Gaza Strip?
– I am talking about the piece from which rockets will not fly to Israel tomorrow, and militants will not infiltrate Israeli territory…
– That’s the Gaza Strip.
– If an adequate government is established in this territory, what guarantee is there that militants won’t infiltrate again in the future, throwing members of the government out of windows and killing them on the streets as they did before?
– This is a very valid and wise question. What does this guarantee depend on? It took the international community decades to rid Germans of the Nazi legacy and teach them to become normal democratic people. The same applies to the Gaza Strip, where schools need to be built that glorify not killers who blow themselves up in discos, hospitals, and buses. Apart from terrorists, there are many people in the Arab world truly worthy of praise. Schools should teach creation, not destruction. Of course, this is possible, and we see such examples in many countries. For example, neighboring Jordan, with which we have peace today. There, too, the situation was difficult, with terrorism. In the early 1970s, the Palestine Liberation Organization wanted to overthrow King Abdullah, the grandfather of the current king. He had to use tanks to crush the terrorists. Jordan was constantly on the brink of terrorism. But gradually, with the help of Western countries, this country became calm, predictable, and adequate. There are many such examples in the Middle East. We see Iraq and how it was under Saddam Hussein and how it is gradually changing today. We see other countries also transforming. When radicalism departs, something normal takes its place. I look at this optimistically. If we properly educate children, invest in them, create jobs, give them diplomas that allow them to work normally, help them study and intern abroad, they will understand and compare that a normal path of life is much better than that of a Hamas terrorist. According to surveys, most residents of Gaza hate Hamas. Today, the US provides humanitarian aid there, but Hamas steals it and doesn’t give it to the people. They lived in a totalitarian society where Hamas was unelectable.
Hamas’s rule in Gaza led to destruction, poverty, a dire situation, and I think most people there understand this. I am confident that everything will be fine there. People just need help.
– What is your opinion on the initiative of the International Criminal Court, which may make a decision regarding Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and Defense Minister Gallant? If such a decision is made, how might events develop?
– There are a number of countries, half the globe, that do not recognize the jurisdiction of the ICC. Among them, for example, the USA. Israel is also among them. We don’t care at all what the ICC says. But I foresee that soon someone influential will call these judges and the situation will change. Biden has already said that it is disgusting and insane… So, I am sure all these initiatives will be frozen, and the decisions will be revoked. But even if not, it will not intimidate us in any way because speaking to Israel from a position of strength means not understanding who we are. We can only be spoken to with respect. For us, this court is biased and paid off, and we know by whom. We know very well who ordered Netanyahu and Gallant. We know how South Africa’s case against Israel collapsed in the International Court of Justice due to a lack of evidence, as there was no genocide. This is nonsense. We created humanitarian corridors, evacuated people, provided them with food, and gave medical assistance. There was no intentional extermination of the population in the Gaza Strip, and there is none. That’s definite. So neither I nor our Prime Minister fear if the ICC makes such a decision. The worst that can happen is he simply won’t be able to travel to countries where he could be handed over to this court. But I don’t believe that will happen. I am confident that soon this will all fall apart. Because these judges are cowards, they will get a call and be told to stop, and the issue will be closed.
– I will ask the last question about the Vatican’s position. How would you assess it? There are various conspiracy theories about the Vatican’s role in today’s events. I don’t want to voice them. But your opinion is interesting.
– I know all these theories. It seems to me that the role of the Vatican is overly inflated, and it’s not worth building conspiracy theories around it. We know the Vatican has always been anti-Semitic. Throughout the Middle Ages, they burned Jews, expelled them from many countries for refusing to convert to Catholicism. Expulsion from Spain, Portugal, France, England, German lands, etc. – these are well-known facts. They have always been anti-Semitic, persecuted, killed, and burned us. During the Holocaust, the then Pope helped Nazis escape to Argentina. They were given Vatican passports, and priests participated in saving Nazis, their assets, and money. At the same time, the Pope did nothing to save Jews, although he could have.
The only decent Pope, it seems to me, was John Paul II, who asked for forgiveness for all Christianity’s crimes against Jews and personally apologized on behalf of the church. As for what is happening today, we can judge by the behavior of Catholic countries and their attitude toward Israel. Catholic France treats us poorly, and we see it. The same can be said about Catholic Spain, Portugal, all Latin American countries. In Italy, too, the attitude is not particularly good. And what is the Pope’s and the church’s role in all this? Has he influenced the situation to change the attitude towards Jews among his flock and the church as a whole? Maybe only in words. But actions speak louder than words…
Rauf Nasirov
Translated from Minval.az
